'71 2002 Headlight Conversion Question

"Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2" (pompei426) 03/11/2014 at 12:42 • Filed to: None

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Hello fellow Oppo'ers (?). I don't know much about brands and their differences. But, I want to swap out my old headlights for some new H4s. I found two that look reasonable, but if you think you know better, please share.

KC HiLiTes 55w H4s - 2 @ $98

And

Hella H4s @ $38 a piece

Both seemed to have great reviews, so what do you guys think.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 12:48

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Cibie or bust. Autoricambi has them for $48 each, and they are, by far, the best 7" H4 rounds short of a set of old Marchals.

http://www.autoricambi.us/product/RS6-37…

For bulbs, I like the Osram Rallye 65/70 and the Philips Xtremevision really well, with the Narva Rangepower +50 coming a close 3rd.

Mattbob > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 12:53

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I think those KCs look super overpriced.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 03/11/2014 at 12:53

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Any specific reason they are better? I heard they were better, but I saw them for much more money. They also seem to be more for vintage vehicles.

Wildstar > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 12:53

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The KCs with the non-fluted lenses just don't look right. they may actually work better, I haven't looked at the beam pattern data, but they don't look like they belong on a 2002.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 12:59

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The Hellas tend to have the highs pointing toward the squirrels when the lows are aimed properly.

Also, the optics are a little more efficient from what I've read.

Personally, I love my set that I have on the Fiat (with a relay harness and the 65/70 Osrams), and the quad square set I ran on my old Volvo 740 (now on my grandmother's '84 Nissan pickup) was epic.

willgar > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 12:59

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I put Cibies on an '86 Porsche 911 once, the worked wonderfully. Clean cutoff lines, even light distribution, and much, much brighter. I think the light output is much better than the newer units on a 964 and rivals modern halogens.

I got them from Daniel Stern Lighting ( http://www.danielsternlighting.com/ ) and if you send him an email, he will explain all your options. He sent me a 3,000 word email when I asked him about my Porsche, and also provided me with a few other cheap lighting upgrade ideas.

willgar > willgar 03/11/2014 at 13:02

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Here is what he said about halogen options (he also told me about LED's and HID's). I have to recommend that you send him an email.

Halogen optics:
If you don't want or need costly cutting-edge headlamps, and just want to see better at night, then put in a set of Cibie replaceable-bulb units. These are considerably better performers than the Hella or Bosch units (be especially careful to avoid the current glut of suspiciously cheap Bosch units — they are in fact surplus motorcycle headlamps that do not meet either the US or the international car/truck headlamp standard. It is definitely not true that an H4 lamp is an H4 lamp is an H4 lamp; motorcycle headlamps are laxly regulated and aren't adequate or safe for use on cars). Even if we disregard the no-name junk all over the internet, there is a large range of performance amongst reputable-brand units. I usually recommend Cibies rather than Hellas. I can supply any headlamp Cibie, Hella, or Bosch makes. Cibies are considerably better than Hellas. Take a look at http://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/exp… and then http://dastern.torque.net/Photometry/Iso… .

Things to notice about these two diagrams:

(1) The Cibie produces a much wider beam pattern than the Hella. The 1000 candela line of the Cibie's beam pattern extends from 25 degrees Left to 25 degrees right, while the 1000 candela line of the Hella extends from 18 degrees Left to 20 degrees Right. At a distance of 50 feet from the car, this means the 1000 candela-and-brighter portion of the Hella's beam is 10.5 feet narrower than that of the Cibie. The 300 cd contour of the Cibie's pattern is *far* wider, extending from 43 degrees Left to 50 degrees Right, compared to 26 Left to 25 Right for the Hella. This means the overall useful width of the beam pattern at 25 feet from the car, as perceived by the driver, will be 40.7 feet for the Cibie and 22.3 feet for the Hella.

2) The total luminous flux (overall amount of light) within the beam pattern is 695 lumens for the Cibie, 463 lumens for the Hella - the Cibie is 50.1% more efficient. (the TLF data is listed as "Luminous Flux" in the readings up above the isocandela diagram)

The high beams for these two lamps (isocandela diagrams not yet scanned in) are very similar in overall performance and amount of light — the critical difference is that the Cibie's high beam hot spot is located closer to (0,0) and closer to its low beam hot spot. The Hella's high beam and low beam hot spots are separated by a fairly large vertical amount, such that setting the lows where they belong results in most of the high beam light going up in the trees, but pulling the high beams down so they send light straight ahead puts the low beams 10 feet in front of the car.

The Cibie headlamps are available either plain ($77.95/ea) or for $1 more with a built-in parking lamp ($78.95/ea). This is a small 5w bulb ($4.24/ea) that sticks through the lamp's reflector into the lamp itself, a couple of inches away from the main headlight bulb, via a socket and grommet. "City light" is a common casual term for this. The official European/international term is "front position lamp". North American terminology calls them "parking lamps". It is _only_ a parking lamp, not capable of producing an effective or legal daytime running light or turn signal function no matter what bulb is installed. Electrical connection is by two standard 1/4" spade terminals. Ground one, and run the other to the vehicle's parking lamp feed. The city light illuminates the whole headlamp in a "pilot light" sort of fashion; this makes for large-area parking lamps, and if a headlight bulb ever burns out, oncoming traffic still sees you as a double-track vehicle. Outside North America, parking lamps must emit white light, the North American style amber ones are not allowed. In North America, parking lamps may emit white or amber light, and these white ones built into the headlamp are a legal form of parking lamp in the USA and Canada.

This type of parking lamp is not used on vehicles with hidden or pop-up headlamps.

Bulbs: Osram 70/65w, $22/ea.

Whichever of these headlamps you install, they _must_ be aimed carefully and correctly per the "VOL" instructions at http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.h… .

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > willgar 03/11/2014 at 13:02

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Dan Stern is the man. Seriously, he is lighting obsessed, in a good way.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > Wildstar 03/11/2014 at 13:03

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I though so. I think I will go with Cibies. They are a bit more, but I think they are worth it.

willgar > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 03/11/2014 at 13:05

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One of the most helpful and honest car guys I have ever met. I will ALWAYS call him when I need lights.

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 03/11/2014 at 13:07

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Thank you very much, I am convinced, especially since they are not the $80 each I saw elsewhere. Thanks for the bulb recommendations as well.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 13:23

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For bulbs, you can talk to Dan, or another good source is Kenny Franklin at Candlepower Inc.

Now, for the brake lights (not the dimmer tails) and indicators, get Honda part # 34903-SF1-A01 for the single filament bulbs.

Per Dan Stern:

The brake lights and rear turn signals can be made 40% to 50% brighter, but I can't sell you those bulbs. You can get the required bulbs (which have nice nickel-plate bases that will not corrode and seize in the sockets) from your local Honda dealer. Part number for the single-filament variety (replacing 1141, 1156, 1073, 7508, or P21W) is 34903-SF1-A01. Part number for the dual-filament variety (replacing 1016, 1034, 1157, 2057, 2357, 7528, or P21/5W in brake/tail or park/turn lights) is 34906-SL0-A01. Don't try to buy these bulbs in the aftermarket, and don't let the dealer sell you anything but a genuine Stanley-made Honda bulb; everything but the genuine Honda product is junk. These are ultrapremium bulbs with very long lifespan, corrosionproof nickelplate base, etc.

'Wägen, EPA LOL > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 13:48

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The Hella matches the style of the car quite a bit better; of the two I vote Hella.

DirtyBird > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/11/2014 at 13:56

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if you put kcs on you gotta get the yellow covers...

Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 > DirtyBird 03/11/2014 at 14:06

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Think I'm going to splurge on some Cibies

Tom Bennett > Chuck 2(O=[][]=O)2 03/12/2014 at 11:10

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Do some research and put in a proper set of relays. That way you won't be stressing your interior switches. That way you can also up-rate the bulbs to higher wattage. DO NOT do that without relays as you will burn out spendy components.

For me Cibie or Hella work best with the period look of the car.